Curse

Hiotoko · Jun 26, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

There's your mistake. As has been stated before, if you want the GW equivalent to US Dollars, you need to replace dollars with "gold" not "ecto." The closest RL equivalent to ecto in the US is probably "oil."

I'd think it'd be more close to something such as stock, seeing as oil is a necessity to the majority of the US whereas ectos are not an integral part of playing Guild Wars. Regardless, this has merely turned into a QQ fest about people complaining that they've lost money on an investment.

RavagerOfDreams · Jun 26, 2008, 08:52 PM // 20:52

so i guess the fact that ecto's are now 3.9k@ trader has no relevance at all to SF farmers....must be those damn gremlins again

Turbobusa · Jun 26, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

I'll just answer to the first point:
It has a big impact on the price since it is so damn effective at dropping ectos that people don't even bother selling them to people.
And since people buying ectos rely on the traders prices, which are lowered because of lots of people merching ectos, it does have an impact.

SF/chaos plains is causing the deflation of ectos.
Simply because it has never been easier, and it has never been so reliable.
People complained because they didn't get a single ecto in 5 runs.
Now they complain because they get only 3.

I'm not saying it's bad. I don't care. But saying it has nothing to do with SF/chaos plains farming efficiency is just blind.

EDIT:
So someone already made the same point, answer was:

Quote:

1. You are wrong.

To that i'll answer:
Look at the facts,
look at the number of complaints,
look at the variation at trader,
and have a look at when it started. Come back and tell me with a straight face that it has nothing to do.

I know there must be some people to go against the river but seriously you're sinking there.

Ate of DK · Jun 26, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

SF is actually raping the economy
it farms ecto mainly until the prices are down so badly they're not even worth farming anymore
then the attention will be turned to other things until the entire economy is milked dry by perma farmers

People who were farming ecto's for making gold instead of crafting an armor will soon farm something else that makes more profit. Gemstone sets will be hot again with the comming update.
Prepare for some QQ threads about Ursan-way and Cry of Pain spikers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

No I stated they are USED as currency which is clearly a plain and simple fact you are denying.

You're right. People use them as a currency. Using crafting materials as a currency is gambling. Some people were lucky while others were unlucky.

I don't have much gold in my storage but I gambling right now... I bought nothing but UW-scrolls last week for 1.3K and yesterday they were allready at 1.7K. I recall them being 2,5K before the double SS/LB failor-weekend that granted months of favor.

Anyway, low ecto prices are only bad for those who use them for other reasons than crafting an armor. Sux to be greedy and selfish... even more in a fantasy world.

Martin Alvito · Jun 26, 2008, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

Sux to be greedy and selfish... even more in a fantasy world.

I don't see you conducting ecto giveaways.

Hypocritical self-righteousness fails.

slowerpoke · Jun 26, 2008, 09:09 PM // 21:09

was there an update planned today?

Ate of DK · Jun 26, 2008, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

I don't see you conducting ecto giveaways.

Hypocritical self-righteousness fails.

I can explain why...

because I don't have many ecto's.

Nightow · Jun 26, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowerpoke

was there an update planned today?

They've been pushing back a skill balance + the HoM update for a while now I think.

Grunntar · Jun 26, 2008, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

But ecto isn't the dollar in GW , gold is. Ecto is something more like oil.

Ectos are used in trading. You can't deny that! And they are worth a lot more than a gold piece, which is why they are needed. So they are the $100 bill of Guild Wars. But it's sometime $100, and sometime $60 (and dropping...!)

Anyway, you can't ignore the economic impact, because without it, there is no problem. (After all, would anyone complain if the PermaSin could all of the sudden farm wood! "OMG, the price of wood is plummeting at the Material Trader! The economy is in shambles!!")

What if Anet introduced a fixed price, high value item, that was not obtainable as a drop in the game? Something worth, say 10 Platinum. It has to be fixed in value, and not farmable. This would then be used in high-end trades, and decouples the material/money issue from ectos. People can still farm ectos, but it then becomes just another material good, like rubies and diamonds. There would be one mad rush on the Rare Material Trader to liquidate the huge ecto supply sitting in storage boxes everywhere, but once that was over, the economy could recover, and return some point of stability. (Maybe they would need to institute a fixed value exchange between ecto and this new item. Otherwise the rich and uber rich could get seriously screwed by the deal...) Thoughts?

Lest121 · Jun 26, 2008, 09:27 PM // 21:27

I will say it again...... LOW PRICES IN LOOT SCALING ERA=WIN FOR ALL.<------Close thread now.

Jebus · Jun 26, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by underverse_ninja

I will say it again...... LOW PRICES IN LOOT SCALING ERA=WIN FOR ALL.<------Close thread now.

No.
12charsss

Lest121 · Jun 26, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebus

No.
12charsss

Yes........

4 Mule characters.

Xx_Sorin_xX · Jun 26, 2008, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

Arguing that SF didn't cause the ecto prices to drop is nothing short of laughable. If you truly believe so, there is clearly no point in continuing this discussion.

The OP agrees that SF caused the ecto price drop, just not in the way everyone is saying or thinking. Read his post again.

Hollow Gein · Jun 26, 2008, 09:39 PM // 21:39

/signed to close yet another accursed SF thread

"Unleash the dogs of war!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Mahanaxar · Jun 26, 2008, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Simply take a look at crude oil prices...the demand and supply for this commodity has not changed materially from the levels a few years ago, yet the price has quadrupled.

Lolwut?
China (and India, to some extent) begs to differ.

Martin Alvito · Jun 26, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grunntar

What if Anet introduced a fixed price, high value item, that was not obtainable as a drop in the game? Something worth, say 10 Platinum. It has to be fixed in value, and not farmable.

Thoughts?

This would just intensify the ecto sell-off, as people would rush to convert ectos to this sort of item.

In principle, it's a good idea. So is removing the gold cap on trades/storage.

The problem is that there are so darned many ectos out there that this isn't a Pareto-improving solution without going a step beyond. It could work if ANet were to freeze ecto prices for a period of time to enable the changeover, or temporarily implement a collector that will exchange one for the other at a fixed rate.

Note that this is often how governments solve hyper-inflation problems in RL, by the way. Declare the old currency worth X fraction of the new currency, make the old currency not legal tender, and open a window during which people can convert the old currency to the new.

Only works if the new currency can't be printed as aggressively as the old, of course.

Mewcatus · Jun 26, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Breaking alot of bad arguments made within this thread.

Issue 1:

Define: Currency

A currency is a unit of exchange, facilitating the transfer of goods and/or services. It is one form of money, where money is anything that serves as a medium of exchange, a store of value, and a standard of value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency

Define: Commodity

A commodity is anything for which there is demand, but which is supplied without qualitative differentiation across a given market.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity

Question: Which is considered as legal tender as currency officially ( As dictated by Anet, you can read this up within your Newbie players manual ) within GW ? Is it Gold or Ectos ?

If it was accepted legal tender in GW as a currency, all the npc merchants and traders would directly allow Ectos as a medium of trade for other goods. But this is not so, thus, Ectos cannot be considered as legal tender, or thus, an Anet dictated "currency".

Issue 2:

Fact: Ectos is indeed a rare commodity. But it is not a key essential to any player. Players can still play through the entire game, going all through all 3 campaigns without seeing a single ecto dropped or used by himself.

So, why are Ectos being directly compared to oil ? Oil is like an undisupted commodity which is key to almost EVERY single country in the world, affecting the growth of nations.

Ectos do not possess such a power. If anything, Ectos are more like Diamonds in real life. They are expensive and rare, and is a key component in some limited industries, but, they are not a key essential ( to the broad world economy ) as a whole.

Hence Ectos should be seen as a luxury item, which tends to be useful only for a very limited scope of usage within GW.

A.) To increase personal net wealth over the official 1000 plat limit.

B.) Trade for selected special high end goods.

Issue 3:
Fact: More players are farming and getting more ectos with the SF buff. This does increase the relative supply of the material which does not meet the rise in demand. Thus prices are dropping. But is this truely affecting the GW economy as a whole?

Question: How many players are holding on to stacks of ectos within GW ?

Question: How many players have wealth in excess of 1000 plat in GW ?

If anything, by what we established, Stacks of ectos are only in possession of a relatively minute amount of players, if compared with the players with less then 1000 plat in excess in GW.

And by minute, I mean say, a drop of water ( Stacks of ectos holder ) vs a glass of water ( > 1000 plat players ).

If so, the only thing happening is this, only a small group is actually getting poorer, while the majority is still not affected.

It is like saying that, the "glass of water players" would have their wealth significantly increased or decreased as a result of ectos going up or down in price. Since the majority do not have a significant holding amount of ectos, why is the GW economy being affected then ?

Issue 4:

Question: Are Ectos legal tender in the real world ?

Going through so many threads, how many players actually realise that, the time GW's servers are shut down, none of the stuff you accumulated counts for squat in real life. ( Thats a matter of "when" not "if" )

Of course, you could mention in your curriculum vitae that you were an expert trader in GW, maybe you could land a job as a real life commodity trader... ... .

Martin Alvito · Jun 26, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xx_Sorin_xX

The OP agrees that SF caused the ecto price drop, just not in the way everyone is saying or thinking. Read his post again.

He's just dead wrong. Most of the ectos in the economy are static - they don't move around much. Lotta people have lots and lots of stacks.

When the rate of generation quadruples, it causes a massive shift in the normal behavior of the market. Since there is a certain segment of the market for whom time is money (ie: the bots), ectos start getting tradered more aggressively. Trading ectos ceases to be worth the time price for the bot farmer, as it takes too long to recover an extra 200-400 gold per ecto given the glut of supply. Further, more ectos to sell means more time price in and of itself.

Once the price starts to decline, it is fully rational for the holders of large blocks of ecto to ascertain that the price is going to continue to fall for some time.

At this point, the market gets flooded.

This is fully rational behavior. It's neither panic nor hysteria. Every individual actor KNOWS that other actors will dump ectos, and further that there is no way that these decentralized actors can coordinate to stop the massive liquidation.

Thus, blame needs to be placed on the catalyst - the dev update. NOT the rational responses of individuals.

Turbobusa · Jun 26, 2008, 09:50 PM // 21:50

@Mewcatus:
But what are diamonds to RL then!!!
hehe j/k

EroChrono · Jun 26, 2008, 09:50 PM // 21:50

What is happening to the ecto market is called inflation.

If you would like to compare it to real world money see it this way;
Gold = Dollars
Ecto = Dollar Bills

There is an 'unlimited' supply of ecto's, just as there can be a nearly limitless supply of dollar bills.
Inflation is a bad thing, regardless...

Here's a small anecdote for you;
In a country far, far away, there was poverity all around. Luckily for that country they had some very, very smart people leading them.
"If there isn't enough money, why don't we just make some more money bills?! Everybody will be rich and have more than enough."
And so it happened, they printed more and more money and everybody was overloaded with money. However this caused inflation, and it went from bad to worse.
Eventually people started to burn money to stay warm! Why you ask? Because it was cheaper to burn money than to buy wood.

There!